View Full Version : Websites and Logos! GRRR
I have nearly had it with SL.
For the past couple of months that I have been here, I have been bidding on numerous web design projects and have successfully won three of them. Each time, I somehow get suckered into also designing a logo for them, because they think it should be included in the price of the website.
Today I noticed that this project was posted:
http://www.scriptlance.com/projects/1145040015.shtml
"I need a nice, easy to manage construction website designed and coded. It does not have to be all custom, but I want it too look unique. This is for a small 1 person company, so not too corporate looking. I will need a logo done also. It has to have a gallery for showing previous houses and projects. This has to be easy to add/delete photos. Please post examples of previous work. Let me know if you need more info. I know it's not alot of money, but it's all I can afford right now."
Not only is the guy only ready to pay $75 for a "not custom but some-how entirely unique" website (a unique website HAS to be custom), but he also thinks that a logo should also be included.
I am tired of this low pricing, I am tired of being taken advantage of and I am tired of webmasters who think Scriptlance is the cheap solution to graphic design work. SL needs to start educating webmasters on what reasonable pricing is, and what reasonable services are. Otherwise all the good programmers are going to leave.
By the way, if I was to complete the construction website shown, I would charge upwards of $500. This guy can afford well over $75 if he owns a construction business:
- Custom unique website designed, coded and tested
- Custom logo design
- Installation/customization of appropriate gallery script
I agree, and the problem is when they ask for this extra stuff, they'll threaten to give you a bad review if you don't do it. Reviews hurt the programmer more than it hurts the webmaster. There should be a minimum budget of $100.. anything lower than that should just ask in the forums if someone can do it for them.
I don't get it...
Why try and educate every single webmaster out there? Why get pissed off because of a project posted?
Someone is unrealistic. They WON'T get what they are looking for. And 1 of 2 things will happen: 1.) they change ther project to something more realistic, or 2.) they go away.
Which is fine because they don't have a clue.
Why expend all the energy into getting pissed off because of this stuff. It really is inconsequential.
Consider it a non-project and move on to the next one. Bid on it when it gets posted again. :)
I am not just referring to this one isolated case. This has been a common occurance around here, to request one service, and then suddenly "sneak in" another project. This was just the latest example I found.
Sometimes webmasters even accept your bid for one project, and then like a previous poster mentioned, demand tha you create a logo for them also. Risk of not doing so results in bad feedback.
Every single webmaster should be educated on what it takes a real designer to actually create something. A good logo can't be done in an hour -- it just can't. Good logo design requires a series of sketches, revisions and design time to perfect it. The same goes for websites.
I don't get it...
Why try and educate every single webmaster out there? Why get pissed off because of a project posted?
Someone is unrealistic. They WON'T get what they are looking for. And 1 of 2 things will happen: 1.) they change ther project to something more realistic, or 2.) they go away.
Which is fine because they don't have a clue.
Why expend all the energy into getting pissed off because of this stuff. It really is inconsequential.
Consider it a non-project and move on to the next one. Bid on it when it gets posted again. :)
I agree with everything you've said, Neupix. I have made suggestions that might help, might not. The only feedback I get is from service buyers who don't want to pay more for the services. They're in business to make money, so I don't blame them for trying to get jobs done for less.
I'm not sure where you're from, but we're also competing against a world market here on Scriptlance. Some people in some countries can afford to work for less. I do find it strange that these people in other countries who are willing to work for $2 an hour don't up their prices so that they are more in line with the global market. They could make more money if their work is any good. One has to wonder what their motivations are, or if they even have any at all.
I suppose we should find a new level on which to compete, or drop our prices until we get established, and develop some business relationships? You tell me the answer.
Guess what?
It's not just the webmasters, it's mainly the programmers out there.
These programmers give these webmasters the right to request a load of work for a scratch of money.
I know many of these programmers. I am not here to give away names, but I know them, and I know that some of them are idiots.
You provided a project link at the top of this thread. Now...
That project requires graphic design, php/mysql and html coding, etc etc.
Believe it or not, but these programmers DONT read. I know of specifically one programmer who bid on that project whom can't code. He/she can do perfectly fine designs, but not php, html, mysql, or anything like that.
So you tell me....
What is going to happen when that project gets awarded to that programmer who can't code?....and who in fact has many great reviews.
Anyways, enough whining. Eventually we all find our regular clients who pay good, and like our work and enthusiasm.
Keep track of EVERYTHING said. Personally I keep all discussions to the PMB lately. If they change the terms and then threaten to leave bad feedback then contact support.
I've had a couple of awful experiences here with some programmers and because I documented EVERYTHING I was able to have it dealt with.
While you are at it, in your efforts to get rid of the capitalist system, get rid of the programmers who bid without reading the project. Who just put in $5,000 for anything. This is a common occurance too.
My point is, that this happens on BOTH sides.
I am not just referring to this one isolated case. This has been a common occurance around here, to request one service, and then suddenly "sneak in" another project. This was just the latest example I found.
Sometimes webmasters even accept your bid for one project, and then like a previous poster mentioned, demand tha you create a logo for them also. Risk of not doing so results in bad feedback.
Every single webmaster should be educated on what it takes a real designer to actually create something. A good logo can't be done in an hour -- it just can't. Good logo design requires a series of sketches, revisions and design time to perfect it. The same goes for websites.
emmataylor
04/28/2006, 04:07
Yes, I agree. I hate it when webmasters milk you for more and more. I get scared and frustrated while doing the work because I fear they'll try to get more work out of me, give me a bad review, etc.
Webmasters, please be aware, if you want any more modifcations that could take hours, don't get angry if the programmer asks for a little more money. The money is their motivation, they're not going to want to work on a project if it consists of 20+ hours of work after the project agreed to is finished.
hm, this discussion has actually no point, we wont come up with any solution or decision. while there is money in this world, one will be trying to save it, and another will be trying to take it. ©
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