View Full Version : Logo budgets, are you joking?
firefly883
12/20/2005, 10:35
I recently joined this site and have seen budgets as low as $1-$5 for a logo. Are you joking!!!? $5 for a professionally designed logo, what is wrong with you people? the US minimum wage is $5.15 per hour for unskilled labour.
How can some of these designers put in a bid that low and hope to make anything. I know some bidders are from what are considered "low wage earning" countries, but doesn't anyone out there think the budgets for some of these projects are ridiculously low? and thus reduces the quality of the design work people produce.
Arachnaphobe
12/20/2005, 11:09
Believe it or not you're not the first person to make this point.
Check about 1000 other posts on this here forum.
digitalnature
12/20/2005, 15:42
i dont bid anymore on logo related projects. there's no point.
if you bid above $50 and dont post a sample you dont have a chance
And you get what you pay for. Want a $5 logo and you just might get one. LOL
I couldn't imagine working with a client like that anyway. Just ignore them.
I wouldn't pay more than $50 for a logo. For a lot of reasons of course.
Also there are designers who wouldn't even bid on $50 logo project as well :) For lots of reasons of course ;)
And they still have a lot of work to do. Apparently quality pays off.
In all fairness, much of the problem has to do with the popularity of very generic logos.
It is a fad. Companies just don't realize the value of a brand. And there a ton of people who put up websites who think they are businesses...
I wouldn't pay more than $50 for a logo. For a lot of reasons of course.
LOL this is the guy who can't find good designers on SL :D
Anyone surprised?
"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" this should be SL's motto in large bold letters on the first page.
LOL this is the guy who can't find good designers on SL :D
Anyone surprised?
"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" this should be SL's motto in large bold letters on the first page.
Nah actually i dislike designers coz they dont know what they charge for.
I don't understand this: "they dont know what they charge for"
kieranmullen
12/23/2005, 00:46
I found someone locally through ebay to do a logo for $30 USD for vector based image, business card layout, stationary quite nice. She was very good to work with. I think programmers need to spend less time whining and more time working...
I also know a "designer" on ebay and she's not only using clipart.com artwork in her "logos", but also re-uses existing logos of well known logo design companies.
And yes, she had to switch her business identity a few times so far.
Of course her prices are very attractive :)
I don't understand this: "they dont know what they charge for"
This means they charge way too much $ for a few hours job.
hexadesigns
12/25/2005, 03:30
To the few who wont pay more than $50 for a Logo I have a question.
What accoding to you is a Logo? Can you define?
[do not google search for it btw]
To the few who wont pay more than $50 for a Logo I have a question.
What accoding to you is a Logo? Can you define?
[do not google search for it btw]
A stupid little image that you are supposed to point out your "Company". Most of them are copies though!
lol, no questions anymore i suppose.
merry xmas everyone! :)
yashwanth
12/28/2005, 05:48
so why can't you make that of yourself instead of depending on designers ...
kieranmullen
12/28/2005, 13:22
so why can't you make that of yourself instead of depending on designers ...
Time.
By the way hex. What is $50 USD = in our dollars?
KM
firefly883
01/07/2006, 11:57
Nice to see my question provoked some interesting reponses.
As for for NWS saying "most of them are copies!"
Do you apply that sweeping statement to all designers, or just the ones you've had bad dealings with.
Most designers I know have studied hard for design qualifications, invested money in buying hardware, design software, fonts etc., and have all the other bills that being your own boss bring. They produce their own ideas and spend time and effort producing a creative solution for each client based on their particular needs, working with them, producing multiple design mock-ups and tweeking them numerous times until they are happy with the result.
This provides them with a professional company image that will hopefully bring them kudos and more profit, and if that is something that is not worth spending $50 or more on then try designing something yourself and see how far you get!
Too true... If you are paying $50 then you are certainly working in a realm where originality is low...
stonedsage
01/08/2006, 22:23
And you get what you pay for. Want a $5 logo and you just might get one. LOL
I couldn't imagine working with a client like that anyway. Just ignore them.
I would also encourage webmasters not to entertain such bids as you'll get a stock image with some text. Its also just encouraging net low lifes to come to SL to make a quick and easy $5.
I pay no less than $40 per logo depending on if its vector icons in it with text or if some actual "drawing" has to take place.
I am one webmaster who finds the sudden drops in prices more than alarming. 2/3 of the bids I get these days are pure junk from people who have no idea what they are doing.. and most of them are the lowest bidders.
You really do get what you pay for, see my reviews on SL I do quite a bit of biz here. So programmers show any webmaster this thread :
Hey you cheapskate stop encouraging the $5 hit and runs and pay a little more to select a real programmer for this project.
Yes it has been posted plenty before but I've also never seen such a surge of fly by nights signing up on not only SL but all of the sites. Quality is really getting scarce these days.
So if you really are serious about being a webmaster, be one .. and pay a fair price for fair work. Stop encouraging the riff raff.
I'll get off the soapbox now ...
That's funny...
Complaining about paying over $50 and then about the quality you get for below $50.
Simple thing to keep in mind: you get what you pay for
Of course it doesn't take designers multiple days to do what they do, but believe it or not, image means something and if what they can produce for you is worth $250, then it's worth it
Because it takes them 3 hours to make it doesn't mean they didn't provide you with something worth $250 or more if it'll help drive you business and etc
Cost per logo:
Labor: $1.00 hour
Creativity and know how: priceless
I created a Flash presentation for a webmaster a few days ago. Very good though, but he wasn't happy with the images used. He points me to sites which I have to source images from, and then in the same breath he tells me that he doesn't like the images. Anyways, that is not the point.
*He also told me that he could easilly whip up the same presentation in Paint Shop Pro in 15minutes. Well first of all, you can't do that in PSP, can you? I wouldn't know, for I don't use PSP. (Rather use Photoshop CS2, Illustrator and Freehand.)
**So many webmasters really don't have a clue what it takes to create a good design, or actually any design for that matter. I know I am a good coder and designer, and there is no doubt about it, BUT come on, don't come to me with your pitty Paint Shop....-I can do that myself comments.
Thanks. I hope I have stated a point.
:confused: Please guys, push those bids on SL. Most of us have really worked hard to have gained the knowledge and experience we have. And we have all invested in ourselfs by purchasing hardware and software. Charge what you are worth. Who the hell does anything for $5??????????????????????????
I will make you a cup of coffee for $5 or possibly flush the toilet for you, but I will most definately not spend hours to create a unique design for $5
But ya cant really say which designer is a real designer and which one is not! Plus designers are overated from my point of view.. They work less (than programmers) and they get paid more.
This thread isn't going anywhere. Come on, of course you'll get people trying to get the job so bad they'll go as low as possible. Although in most cases their work is copied from several free online resources or it's just bad, but what were you expecting when you pay $5, $40 or $50 for a logo design?
Keep in mind that the logo is the NUMBER ONE thing your clients will remember. So why not pay a bit more, say $80 or $100 for a job well done?
About designers being overrated... Doesn't even deserve an answer but do you think that coders have the same imagination or creativity as a designer? They just apply what they learned and as long as there are no bugs, the client will be happy. Designers on the other hand, may have to do 2 or 3 different logos to please the client.. and each one is at least 2 hours of work...
This thread isn't going anywhere. Come on, of course you'll get people trying to get the job so bad they'll go as low as possible. Although in most cases their work is copied from several free online resources or it's just bad, but what were you expecting when you pay $5, $40 or $50 for a logo design?
Keep in mind that the logo is the NUMBER ONE thing your clients will remember. So why not pay a bit more, say $80 or $100 for a job well done?
About designers being overrated... Doesn't even deserve an answer but do you think that coders have the same imagination or creativity as a designer? They just apply what they learned and as long as there are no bugs, the client will be happy. Designers on the other hand, may have to do 2 or 3 different logos to please the client.. and each one is at least 2 hours of work...
Do you really know what you are talking about?
I am a designer and programmer, and I can tell you honestly that you have the pricipal completely wrong.
Paint Shop Pro doesn't make you a designer...
What I mean is that most of the time designers, unlike coders, sit for *hours* trying to find the better way to create a company logo... and they still have the possibility that the client will not like the way the product is done so they have to redo it again, multiple times?
On the other hand, coders know what language to apply, structure, etc.. And if the client is unhappy, they don't start over from scratch. Besides, very rarely a totally new script is necessary so you can almost always find help about coding...
I know about both jobs and that's what I think.
Who mentioned anything about Paint Shop Pro?
The problem with design is that there are some clients who don't know what they want until they see it. They only know what they don't want.
Sometimes it's really frustrating when I design something the client hates but I loved and they then choose another design I didn't think was as good.
digitalnature
02/22/2006, 07:25
The problem with design is that there are some clients who don't know what they want until they see it. They only know what they don't want.
Sometimes it's really frustrating when I design something the client hates but I loved and they then choose another design I didn't think was as good.
yep, some of our clients think that what they like is what their website's visitors like. often they choose the ugliest version.
they should discuss with their team/friends & choose what the most of them like...
Oh don't get me started on those people!
I had one client who I did 18 revisions for. And I was so frustrated I just slapped something together. It wasn't very good at all. And she loved it.
It was so bad I never put it on my portfolio. :)
yep. designers need talent and taste to do talentless and tastless work...clients just need..erm
needwriters
02/23/2006, 05:51
One thing really annoys me about designers. They take on the work expecting the client to love what they do. One guy we were working with for a flash site created the most amazing header (charge over $200 for it though!)and then created the restof the template (NON flash) which had to be the worse I had evern seen in my life.
We asked for revision of course. But he just coudnt grasp what we were asking him. We showed him examples we thoroughly detailed it but he didnt have a clue. We were at the end of our tether and we told him we coudnt use his template but would use his header as that was superb. He said NOPE gtta use both and pay for both. $500+ in the end for a template we cant use..Of course we couldnt leave him in the dark as we needed him for the flash element of the site.
Designers shouldnt take on a project with the thoughts that the client is going to love everything they do. They have a specific thought in mind of what they want and what they dont. Its a designers job to use their creativity to make it come to life.
I ofcourse dont expect to pay $5 for anything! You get what you pay for. If you want some copied material then this is great good for you bu if you want quality you have to pay for it.
I get what you're saying but I think you're generalizing just a tad. I have a very strict policy of 'if you don't like it, you don't pay'.
Your designer really should have bent a little, though. 'The client is always right' is as true as 'you get what you pay for'. Anyway, why did you pay $300 for a template?
ABhishek
02/24/2006, 02:34
Well the 5$ thing is something that new designers, go in for to gather some review...As I always say , be ready with Watermarked Images to provide as a Mockup...and let the client realise *what's the value of real work*
I'd go with IRN
And you get what you pay for. Want a $5 logo and you just might get one. LOL
I couldn't imagine working with a client like that anyway. Just ignore them.
100% true ....
Regards,
Abhishek
I recently joined this site and have seen budgets as low as $1-$5 for a logo. Are you joking!!!?
They don't know what they wants to get and don't know difference between professional logo and "p.o.s $5". Ignore that crap and walk away, my advice.
It is really discouraging to look at the long list of low bids, I can only imagine what these folks are getting for such low amounts.
kieranmullen
03/22/2006, 10:11
What a bunch of babies! Will this thread never die? If you are conerned about lower bids then dont go to the major sites like RAC. There you will find many more users to compete gainst you for bids tht SL. That is why projects always come out comming more at SL because there are not very many coders.
This is good for coders bad for buyers...
Ok so I know Im jumping in here in the middle of a heated debate, but another perspective on this issue is this:
Im new to scriptlance, so the first thing I did was to check out what types of projects people were posting. Then I checked out the types of bids they were getting. It was TOTALLY crazy, low cheap bids. So I thought COOL I can get my "stuff" quick and at a great price because they are probably doing it in their spare time or whatever. I also figured you guys were just "Really" good and probably have some types of programs, software, etc. already set in place for you to do these projects quick and fast so you were cheaper (because you were faster and could make the same $$ by doing more and many projects).
(This is just my perspective on being new to this, so don't beat me down)
Honestly, I would have no clue what to expect to pay for a logo, especially when I see them going for ten dollars. Of course Im going to think someones trying to pull one over on me when they bid something like 100 or 200 or whatever a logo "really" costs (again I dont know) because of the "cheap bids". You have to look at it from the other perspective as well.
I am just telling you this as a "newbie" to the site and what I have "seen" not really having much experience yet with the whole process. And when you post a project and get bids ranging from $50.00 to $1000.00. Its totally crazy to even begin to know what to think!! You have to step back and see what at least us "new people" are seeing when we arrive (maybe that will help you understand a little on "why")
Here's another perspective on the whole deal: Maybe scriptlance could say have some price ranges to follow. (Like who knows if they'd ever do that) Like maybe prices ranging from new programmers to experienced programmers. Someting like
Logos: New Programmers prices to expect $50.00 - $100.00
Experienced Programmers $100.00-$200.00
Then people would know what to expect and if they "sell" the experience part of it to the webmasters many would prefer the experience.
By the way (just wondering) what would be a price for a logo from one of you guys or gals that is "experienced" or senior members at sl.
What about a website?
You dont have to answer its just that some of you sound so excellent especially the senior members (probably because your are).
I have a new perspective just by joining the forum and looking at the topics and discussions. I actually "see" people in here that I would trust them if they bid on one of my projects because of who they are in the forums. I also see others I would not work with as well.
In case you don't hear it enough, I think you all are really great for doing this. Keep up the good work.
Now that's a good point. This forum should be obligatory!
kieranmullen
04/04/2006, 17:47
$50 isnt bad. (this is not me, I dont know them. I reside in oregon, they reside in washington I found them when looking at a scuba website.)
http://www.sparklepages.com/prices.htm
digitalnature
04/04/2006, 19:03
$50 isnt bad. (this is not me, I dont know them. I reside in oregon, they reside in washington I found them when looking at a scuba website.)
http://www.sparklepages.com/prices.htm
:eek:
sparklepages.com/examples.htm > this must be the ugliest portfolio I have ever seen
$50 isnt bad. (this is not me, I dont know them. I reside in oregon, they reside in washington I found them when looking at a scuba website.)
http://www.sparklepages.com/prices.htm
This is also a lot more than any buyers on this site are willing to pay for website design, then they expect you to provide all the images, graphics, and copy. If you take a look at the designer's details page, the customer (buyer) is to provide text and images, not the programmer, then it will still be one to two weeks before your site is ready. Try this on a freelance site.
I bid a lot less than this designer is charging, and I still have to scrape to get any work around here. Service buyers need to quit whining about cost and get off the budget.
Take a look at this thread: http://forum.scriptlance.com/showthread.php?t=719
I've just found the post by Leilani.
That's sad, but true - sometimes I browse through $5-$10 logo designers' portfolios and.. well, it's interesting experience for sure ;)
I know a few members I really respect - we discuss design related things, help each other or share the work amount. But they are both reliable and professional, and you won't find them in the $5-$10 bid range :)
Sometimes it's really frustrating when I design something the client hates but I loved and they then choose another design I didn't think was as good.
One thing really annoys me about designers. They take on the work expecting the client to love what they do
You go to a designer intrusting him/her with their expertise in the field. Their expertise in knowing what looks good and what doesn't, otherwise you'd do it yourself. You wouldn't go to a doctor telling him what to prescribe you. You simply tell him what's wrong and let him fix it. That's what makes a good businessman, the ability to delegate.
$100 for a logo is laughable, below that is simpling giving away money.
firefly883
05/09/2006, 05:25
I recently joined this site and have seen budgets as low as $1-$5 for a logo. Are you joking!!!? $5 for a professionally designed logo, what is wrong with you people? the US minimum wage is $5.15 per hour for unskilled labour.
How can some of these designers put in a bid that low and hope to make anything. I know some bidders are from what are considered "low wage earning" countries, but doesn't anyone out there think the budgets for some of these projects are ridiculously low? and thus reduces the quality of the design work people produce.
Thanks for the comments and opinions from all who added content to this thread. From the number of views it has had, it seems to have aroused some interest from users of SL.
I'm just a little disappointed that non of the designers or webmasters, that this was originally aimed at, haven't put some comments to give me an understanding of their motives for working at such a low budget level.
I know some designers will always bid as low as possible to get projects, but I think in the end that webmasters, in general, don't always go for the lowest price.
It is the quality of the work, and creativity of the designer that will benefit the webmaster, and hopefully get the designer a good review and maybe more work.
I understand that people will always want to pay as little as possible for ANY service, but, webmasters, please have some respect for hard work and creativity that designers put into their designs. They are only trying to make a living at something they love to do, same as you.
Well that's me done.............Thanks Guys
This project: http://www.scriptlance.com/projects/1147229531.shtml made me laugh to see "designers" bidding blindly the amount set as a budget, even though they have no any idea what the project scope is. It doesn't matter for them, it's just another opportunity to put their auto-bid with "professional service assured" like comment...
Not only the project is apparently dedicated for already selected provider, but there's no way to know the requirements.
I'd understand people bidding their flat rate for logo design (whatever it'd be), but NOT stretching it to the 50-100 times higher amount!
Many of these designers design their logos for $10-$30. But seeing the budget of $2500, they insantly "upgrade" their services level to the price they see. Simply amazing :rolleyes:
I'd use a project like this to make a personal blacklist of the auto-bidders and people acting unprofessionally if I planned to post a project as a webmaster.
Good example of "professional" behaviour :)
This project: http://www.scriptlance.com/projects/1147229531.shtml made me laugh to see "designers" bidding blindly the amount set as a budget, even though they have no any idea what the project scope is. It doesn't matter for them, it's just another opportunity to put their auto-bid with "professional service assured" like comment...
Not only the project is apparently dedicated for already selected provider, but there's no way to know the requirements.
I'd understand people bidding their flat rate for logo design (whatever it'd be), but NOT stretching it to the 50-100 times higher amount!
Many of these designers design their logos for $10-$30. But seeing the budget of $2500, they insantly "upgrade" their services level to the price they see. Simply amazing :rolleyes:
I'd use a project like this to make a personal blacklist of the auto-bidders and people acting unprofessionally if I planned to post a project as a webmaster.
Good example of "professional" behaviour :)
This is really funny. And after all I guess that $2500 was just a random amount you placed in there, since you have already discussed the project with your provider.
Man...
This is a real laugh. I haven't seen anything like that before. :eek:
$2500 is a payment limit for featured project. Within this budget there's a certain amount of work done for this webmaster and the logo is a part of this.
But all the $20 logo designers now try to sell their services for $2500, only because they think the webmaster is naive :o
digitalnature
05/11/2006, 09:39
Hello, I have already spoken to my development team with regard to this project. We can definitely develop the required system for you given that the specifications are clearer. On the contrary, what we believe is that you need a logo to be designed for your website. May I also add that you need to be very sure to whom to give the project to, as Logo is like your brand ambassador? Please feel free to write in to us. Regards, Aijaz Ansari Business Developer and Analyst
:))
^Yep :) And a few similar ones...
I think it's already been said a hundred times, but as I am just now looking for a logo, I have to put down what I am expecting to pay for. I hope this helps clear some things up between designers and business owners.
1. The logo will be my 'brand' online, offline, in my personal world, in everyday work, everywhere I go. It is the symbol I will be known by in my business life. So it has to reflect me. Even if it is in some small way, it has to be something I can live with, and stand behind. It represents me. YOU represent me when you design for me. Keep this in mind.
IE: It's my 'brand'.
2. It's got to be easily recognizable. I'm not NIKE and I don't have their budget. But can you imagine the conversation that took place to convince them to go with that simple swoosh? Take about BALLS! The design may have taken the guy 3 seconds to draw up on a computer, and maybe 20 minutes to perfect. But what they got (and paid for) was GENIUS!
IE: Sometimes it's not time... it's insight/genius/inspiration.
3. It's got to be portable. I don't know exaclty how many fields of business I will be getting into, or moving into, or moving away from. So I don't want something that will be 'dated'. It's pretty easy to spot bad logo's from the 80's and 90's nowdays. 10 years from now I don't want to look like I got caught by a 'fad'.
IE: Good design is eternal AND universal. Because it is GOOD design!
4. I don't want some cheap-ass clipart crap my best friend could have done for me. I am a businessman, and I expect you to be too. I will pay you fairly for what I am receiving, as I would expect you to deliver fairly for what you are being paid.
IE: This is a business deal. I expect to pay you what you are worth. Bid accordingly. Don't bid $1 for a $100 logo. Don't bid $100 for a $40 logo.
5. You are a designer. BE a designer. I am putting my faith in your ability to 'translate' my desires into visual reality. The 'success' comes from the moment I see my desire in print/screen/reality. That's the point you should be striving for. It's what satisfaction is for both parties. Aim for this and you will never go wrong.
That's it.
http://www.scriptlance.com/projects/1154589009.shtml
:D
I have designed logos for as little as $5, in as little as 5 minutes. In some cases they lead to $500 business which I was able to finish in 2-3 days!
Even for logos which did not result in more business, I was able to add to my portfolio. Win-win each time.
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